The article below is the whole reason for writing this little blog. Read it if you want but its long and I note any points that I want to talk about in the blog, and I think my IQ took a dip from reading Jerry Millen douche up the place. He's like Dana White but without anything to back his words up (not even logic).
M-1 Official: UFC Is WWE of MMA
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/07/31/m-1-official-ufc-is-wwe-of-mma/
(pretty much some bull where M-1 VP Jerry Millen blames Dana White for the Fedor deal falling through and call the UFC greedy, Typical posturing with a lot of fallacious logic)
The Backstory:
Affliction's folding has left the worlds top heavyweight, Fedor Emelianenko, jobless. So for the past week the UFC, the worlds top MMA promotion, has been trying to sign the fighter. The signing fell through.
Why M-1 and Millen suck:
Why has the deal with Fedor fallen through? One person. One person (well one organization) whom every MMA fan should hate: Jerry Millen. You know the guy that took Pride and ran it straight into the ground. Because M-1, the company that owns Fedor's current contract and the company that Millen represents, is making exorbitant demands for a single fighter.
Basically they want to “co-promote.” Both parties, UFC and M-1, add up the fighters purses the rent on the arena guard and all the other costs of running an event then split the costs down the middle. Then the two parties “[are] willing to take half the profit or half the loss” (Millen).
The profit splitting sounds harmless right? Except that the UFC hasn't lost money on a card since 2004. Its like going up to McDonald's and saying I want to do business with you. I've got this great idea for a new McBurger. You pay for half of your company's operating costs I'll pay the other half. Then in return we'll split the profit. No one would agree to that. McDonald's took a risk just to start a business and now that the cash is coming in in dump trucks I want to take a piece.
For example, if it costs McDonald's $100 to stay in business, and they make a gross profit of $1000 with out the new McBurger. Then the company makes $1000. With me some new guy off the street the starting cost is $50 each. Now say with the new McBurger they rake in $1500. Then McDonald's has to have to split $1500 with me. So $750 each. In other words by splitting McDonald's lost $250.
The UFC – M-1 co-promotion is the same idea as the new burger. M-1 is offering the new fighter but because the UFC is already an established brand the card regardless of whose on it will make huge amounts of money regardless of whether the new expensive fighter is on it or not. So the UFC makes more money without the co-promotion. Bottom line the UFC is a business and it or any business for that matter are not willing to let some upstart ride their coattails, steal their money and damage their reputation. If M-1 wants to join up with the UFC then they should pay at least half of the hundreds of millions in losses that the UFC ate for a decade. Actually more because there is no risk involved and they eventually would make all of that money back.
The real situation is even worse than the McDonald's example. Brock Lesnar's fight against Randy Couture brought in roughly 700k-900k PPV buys, and after his shit talking and antics is worth even more so figure 1million buys (to make the math easy). Fedor's Affliction shows on the other hand only brought in about 100k buys each. So if each buy is $50, then Lesnar is worth $50 million dollars, and Fedor only $5 million. Its like a rival company wanting to split the profits but only make 10 percent of the cash. This of course discount the UFC's marketing ability. With the UFC behind him Fedor could be made into a money making force, especially with his background, but without the UFC Fedor isn't worth shit. In other words Fedor, Millen, and M-1 give almost nothing and take half.
M-1 still wants to co-promote in spite of the fact that they're basically getting free advertising for Fedor, introduction into the largest MMA fan base in the world, and would probably be able to get massive advertising deals from every company promoting the UFC from Budweiser to Tapout. Now throw $2 million dollars a fight on top of that, more money than the UFC pays the entire rest of the card combined. The fact that Dana White even was willing to let Fedor compete in combat sambo (basically MMA in pads and headgear) whenever he wanted just shows how greedy the M-1 is. They say they want to do whats best for the sport but really they just want to huge piles of UFC gold.
Millen also says that they would split any losses. But M-1 has been attached to two company's that have gone under, Bodog and Affliction. Affliction paid Fedor 300k and M-1 the other million when every other big name on the card made a million dollars by themselves. Thats not co promoting thats the some thing boxing promoters do to their fighter: Do none of the work and take most of the money. Its part of what killed boxing and M-1 is trying to do the same in MMA. In other words M-1 used Bodog and Affliction to make some quick cash then bailed when If they are truly willing to split the losses why is M-1 still around? Because there nothing but a group of leeches. When the money's flowing they take it like the greedy bastards they are but when the ship starts sinking they're the first to jump off.
UFC is the WWE of MMA:
Sure UFC is the leading, basically the only, MMA organization around effectively making them the force in the sport like WWE, but honestly who cares. All the best fighters would stay competing and fighting against each other at a high tier of combat. As an added plus, with one MMA organization, MMA wont turn into boxing with 4 world boxing authorities that refuse to unify the heavyweight championship (or any championship) meaning only the best champ and no alienated disenfranchised fans.
To summarize, Millen and M-1 simply want to take money from an established enterprise and in doing so are detrimental to the sport. Without Fedor the UFC can still continue to grow with him they will simply lose money unless M-1 gets much less greedy (which almost certainly ain't happening).
Jerry Millen says that competing organizations is good for MMA, that co-promoting is good for MMA. He's wrong (he's like 0-5 in this paper). A single elite organization was necessary so that MMA doesn't stagnate and end up like boxing.
One final thought:
throughout the article Millen, continually states that the UFC's determination not to accept the deal is a hindrance to the sport and that they should accept the deal. He repeatedly says that the UFC is holding back the sport. But why should the premier power in MMA bend to the will of a tiny organization with only a single chip. The UFC shouldn't. The only people holding up the sport up are M-1 and Millen. If any thing they should let Fedor take his million bucks per fight and then take 10% managers fees like the leeches they are.
Personally I think M-1 will fold in a year or two and Fedor will be forced into the UFC but he's already 32 years old and not getting any younger. Lets just hope that when Fedor finally ends up in the Octogon he still has some juice in the tank.
This has all been my opinion, hope you liked it
- Joe
And now Fedor inked with Strikeforce for less money and No PPVs. The man is scared of Lesnar and losing to real competition. Arvloski, Sylvia, and Buentello. Come on. Cro Cop went the distance and so did big Nog
ReplyDeleteBig Nog is a top fighter and before his foot injury Mirko was too. You cant just say that Fedor is bad because he doesnt finish top competition every fight. By that logic GSP is a shit fighter because his top challengers (Alves, and Fitch) went all the way with him.
ReplyDeleteI never once said he was bad he is just overrated. People say he is the best pound for pound fighter but hes only fought two top fighters in Nog and Cro Cop. Randleman and Coleman are 205ers. He hasnt been tested other then them and they all went the distance. GSP has fought Penn, Alves, Hughes, Fitch, Parysian, and Sherk.
ReplyDeleteIm just saying if Fedor wants to prove he is the best he needs to fight Mir, Coutore, Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, not Brett Rogers.
lol that's becuase you're looking at sherdog and not actually watching his fights. fedor might not have a list of 30/30 wins over #2 competition but he's still got the best resume a heavy weight will have for a very long time. you have to remember neither you or I were watching mma during that time and we don't truly know who was at the top, all we can assume is that it's those who fought fedor who were at or near the top. it's widely rumoured he fought cans his entire career, but if you watch his fights you know this to not be true. the hong man choi fight was probably the most i ever saw fedor in trouble and that's not the best competition he's faced. a matchup is made for that day, not to be speculated upon 3,4,5 years later and made light of..
ReplyDeletei think brett rogers and alistair overeem pose more of a threat to any heavyweight division than 95% of the UFC heavyweights. it might be a small roster but that fight is gonna be nuts. carwin, velasquez, these guys are not even proven elites. velasquez in particular didnt really impress me last fight, he seemed like a fish out of water trying to stand with kongo. and carwin almost got knocked the fuck out in the first round too. i'm telling you, dos santos is a better prospect than any of those fighters you listed (sans maybe lesnar. dude's gonna single handedly create a super heavyweight division.)
keep an eye on junior dos santos. he trains with shogun and nogs. the dude has got some sick stand up to go with an already game jiu jitsu skill set. i dont know why more people arent watching this, if it werent for dos santos brock lesnar wouldn't have gotten a title shot. fabricio werdum was next in line but he got knocked out in the first round by dos santos. i guess a decision over heath herring is better than a knockout over the #1 contender.
the flaw in your argument is that the ufc is also not trustworthy; they're not consistent. see my example above objectively stating dos santos deserved the couture fight more than lesnar. i think they'd be more willing to bend over and take an offer for fedor if the UFC wasn't gauranteed to drop him should he lose in dramatic fashion. the ufc drops fighters and sponsors like i drop terds (every morning). the dogs are willing to pick up their scraps while the ufc picks up the young explosive fighters with insane reflexes and watches them beat all the old men who have worked so hard to become so talented. it's the nature of the sport, you can't have a blood sport without being bloodthirsty in business. you and I both know neither m-1 or the UFC think it's beneficial to have 2 top organizations, but we also know that m-1 is not a top organization. It's not just the UFC whos running out of competition, either. Let's not forget that Jose Canseco fought Hong Man Choi. Choi can't even fit into an octagon! It's easy to question a fighter like fedor whos on the back end of his career. his legacy as the "last emperor" will be a great one regardless.
now a comment without composure: how can you like brock lesnar and call fedor overrated? your forte in sports is usually in statistics, but you're gonna have to forget that if you want to really analyze MMA. i don't know why the ufc ever started doing stats in the first place other than "machida has never lost a round"
fight finder doesnt support asterisks, so as long as it still says matt hamill lost to michael bisping i'd use it only as a means to.. well... find fights... or just let me take over the mma section. haha
OK first you need to take Dos Santos dick out of your mouth. To say he deserved a title shot after beat Werdum is retarded. Werdum was next in line but Dos Santos was suppose to be a CAN and beat him. Dont get me wrong I think Dos Santos will be great but he needs more time. Besides that he has no significant wins aside from Werdum. Lesnar didnt deserve a shot but he beat Herring and controlled Mir before being subbed. Obviously you hat Lesnar and dont like him tight I dont care.
ReplyDeleteFedor I have seen his fights against Big Nog, Cro Cop, Coleman, Slyvia, Choi, Babalu, and Arvloski. Sure he is 30-1 but put him up against Coutore, Mir, Lesnar. You say Carwin and Velasquez are unproven well I agree but I guess you consider Rogers a establish great Hall of Fame fighter with his ten wins. The real competition is in the UFC. Alistair isnt that great IMO. He has been knocked out by Shogun twice and subbed by Arona and Werdum bahahaha. But I guess your the MMA god and evrything you say is right.
So please remove Fedors dick from your mouth because he is no way in hell the best pound for pound fighter or even top three and thats why I say hes overrated. Not a bad fighter
So you've seen fedor's 7 most popular fights. That's not even 25%. Look, we can all resort to saying "take A's dick out of your mouth please" but then again we've all argued with Jeremiah and know that that's only a way to get out of actually intelligently arguing a point. Brett Rogers? Also not proven, but just as, if not more proven, than Cain or Carwin. Werdum was a more quality opponent than Gonzaga, Arlovski, Herring OR Kongo. That guy is equally as dangerous on the ground as Frank Mir and thats arguably still Mir's only real strength.
ReplyDeleteDos Santos has another quality win with a knockout over a dutch kickboxing standout by the name of Stefan Struve. If you had been following MMA like you should have been when you made these opinions about the UFC, you should know they've been trying to get Struve for a while because he's a huge draw in Europe and is a talented kickboxer. I think Pat Barry would snap his leg, but he wasn't in the picture when they started talking about Struve.
Now, a list of Fedor's notable wins (probably you've never heard of half of these people but they were all top competition at the time. something most people don't have the mind capacity to admit.)
Zulu, Randleman, Kohsaka, Nagata, Fujita, Schilt, Apostolov, Arona, Takada, Valavicious, Goodridge, Nog (2x), HMC, Mirko, Mark Coleman (2x)
That's 18 quality wins over a career. I'm guessing that alot of these fighters you cant even put a first name to, and that's leaving out Sobral, Hunt, Lindland, Hasemen just to name a few. This argument you're trying to make of fedor not being GOAT is like trying to compare a Manning to a Montana. You just can't make that argument by citing stats, you have to watch more than 1/4 of the guys fights and form your own opinion. Fedor is a relentless tactician who is more well rounded than any fighter ive ever seen in the history of MMA, and that is why he has the fame he deserves.
ReplyDeleteWho the fuck else can you think of who could survive "THE" Randleplex? You think Rampage's powerbomb was bad? The only reason that's considered the best slam in the history of MMA is because it knocked the guy out. I still hate watching Fedor vs Randleman, any other guy would have had his head snapped right off. Fedor continued the fight and won.
You need to become more well versed in what's going on outside of the UFC (without using fight finder) and what's been going on in MMA for the last 10-15 years, instead of basing your opinions solely on what you've seen since you started watching. Refrain from making comments on MMA as a whole until you watch more than just Zuffa products. Don't take this in an insulting manner and respond with another "take his dick out of your mouth" comment and actually try taking my advice..
The only fighters I can name who pose a serious threat to the p4p contention are Lyoto Machida, Anderson Silva and GSP. I think GSP and Silva won't fight unless forced. GSP likes his division, Silva bounces around but owns his division and won't lay claim to the one above it because of his training partner. Do you hate Machida and Silva for not giving the fans what they want, too?
The fighter who competes against the largest range of weight in competition is Fedor Emelianenko. He is absolutely the undisputed p4p #1 and there's nothing anyone can do about it. HMC is 7'2 360 lbs. Fedor is 6'0 230 lbs. Mark Hunt is a monster.
Nobody looks back and says, "Roger Maris was garbage." It literally took steroids to beat his record. You can't sit there and say Peyton Manning is better than Bart Starr. So why are you taking a position on Fedor Emelianenko, in the sport which of the 3 you know least about? Riddle me this!
Anderson Silva walks around bigger than Fedor, yet Fedor is the champ 2 divisions above him. People are all over Anderson's nuts saying he's #1 p4p, but do they really understand what p4p means? IF Lesnar and Emelianenko TIED in a fight, Emelianenko would still be #1 pound for pound. A draw in HW at 230 lbs is more p4p "points" than an equal draw at 265. Just using your boyfriend as an example, don't get upset.
ReplyDeleteFirt your repeating what I said Rogers, Cain, and Carwin are unproven. Which leads us to Alistair the only other threat for Fedor if you want to call him that. Alistair fought at LHW before his extreme steroid use and really hasnt handled top competition . Since you claim to have seen all of Fedors fights and evryone elses you should know this. After Alistair then what for Fedor
ReplyDeleteI have never once (look back at my posts) said Fedor is a shitty fighter or bad. I think he is over rated and not top P4P. Machida, Silva, GSP, Torres, and shit Penn. And Im dumb and you are mr know it all I guess I dont know that Kevin Randleman Mark Coleman and Ricardo Arona are better at LHW. I already talked about Renato Sobral. Gary Goodridge is not top talent thats ridiculous
You blasted me fot talking about upcoming Jon Bones Jones saying hes too young and too early to predict and now your being hypicritical about Dos Santos he knocked out Werdum thats it. As far asthe Manning-Starr you obviously have no clue what yout talking about. Manning already in this oint of his career has double the amount of passing yards and TDs that Starr had. And this whole Anderson Silva bigger than Fedor is bullshit. Your talking out of your ass. here is the proof from the man himself
http://sherdog.com/videos/recent/Silva-Expects-Takedown-from-Forrest-2037
he says is bigger than him and Forrest walks around at 225 at his heaviest
ReplyDeletesaying fedor is overrated is just a matter of perspective, i believe he is as good as i BELIEVE he is, right now nobody has proven their skills to be as dominant as fedor in his division, after he gets through rogers and overeem, i dont see any other rising talent out there out of UFC, I dont understand Fedor he doesnt seem hungry like most others, i hope he makes the move to come to the UFC after his contract is up. IF not i would lose respect for him as a fighter, think like a fighter dont think like a businessman, a fighter wants to fight the best and test his skills against the best, thats what its all about.. Im wondering if fedor is making the best decision for himself or for others.. he says he doesnt like how the ufc treats its fighters, i dont think fedor knows that he alone can change the UFC, rather then UFC changing him.. hes the one person that can make a difference and bring balance to mma, GOD DAMNIT he needs to come to ufc and destroy lesnar and save the UFC heavyweight division. IF this was a game of king of the hill, UFC is the HIll, fedor has not yet made it that far hes still tossing people off midway, he needs to go that extra step and take control of the HIll and cement his legacy..
ReplyDeleteman alot of people are actually pulling for griffin i dont know whether they think he has the skills or if they just picking him because they like him, i dont see anything that griffin can do better than silva, silva is going to dance around the cage while being precise and pinpoint with his striking. Griffin is going to feel andersons clinch and going to back the fuck away lol.. I like griffin but i dont think hes going to outstrike or outbox anderson.
Bj Penn vs Kenny Florian, i have the same standpoint as couture, the only way i see kenny winning is keeping it on his feet and bringing the fight to the later rounds, BJ penn is a great first round fighter, if bj cant finish florian within the first 2 rounds then florian has a somewhat of a good chance of winning if he can keep it on his feet and outstrike bj. i dont think bringing the fight to the later rounds will effect bj at all as a lightweight, he went 3 solid rounds with sean sherk thats a testament to his cardio, i can imagine bj getting picked apart on his feet, if Kenny can find his range, i can also imagine bj penn dominating in all areas and making kenny florian look like a fool. We will see.
Good post Sean I think at this stage of his career Fedor doesnt want to tarnish his record. If he was a true champ he would take on who ever wherever and not give this bullshit about co-promotion. No doubt he is a great fighter and one of the most dominate heavyweights but wouldnt you want to beat the champ in the UFC which is the eptimy of MMA
ReplyDeletewhy should i have seen all of overeems bad fights because i claim to have seen all of fedors fights? i dont understand the path your logic takes at all.
ReplyDeletesilva walks around at 225-230 when he's not in camp. that means he's taller and just as heavy as fedor. he might fight at slightly lower but fedor doesnt drop water weight before fights because he doesnt need to. that's 90% of what people drop to begin with.
I have no idea where you get this or you just make it up but in that interview his says forrest griffin weighs more than him and he is a LHW. You claim to gave seen all of Fedors fights and have said you think Alistair is great so I figured an MMA guru like yourself would see all his fights
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ReplyDeleteHey fanboy, I know its hard but try to keep my name out of your mouth for a while for two reasons. 1) I dont want my name anywhere near a thread about the crap that is MMA, and 2) I find it a little odd that you think about me that often. Just try to forget about me...I know its hard but try.
ReplyDeletenah, it's just that i've never actually heard such a bad response as "please remove this guy's dick from your mouth" except from you. and eric how come you stopped responding to my points and focusing on one small portion of what i said? that's another familiar tactic
ReplyDeleteoh, and 1) nobody cares. 2) stupidity at the highest level leaves a lasting impression.
ReplyDeleteIf someone weighs 10 lbs more than me but it's obviously at least 10 lbs of fat, I'd say that they're smaller than me. Forrest doesnt walk around at 225, that's what he weighs come fight time. Thiago alves weighs 200 lbs, and 195 around fight time. So does Anthony Johnson. The higher in weight, the higher the posibility of a deficit between your weigh in weight and your fighting weight. Anderson silva has openly admitted to walking around at 230 before a training camp (not before a fight, or even during a fight, obviously.) Fedor is one of those fighters whom no matter how much he trains, he doesnt lose all of his baby fat. That is why I say Fedor and Anderson are about the same size and if anything Anderson is bigger because he's taller. Anderson said Forrest is bigger than him but that's because he's been cutting to 185 all this time and he finally doesnt have a huge reach advantage. Forrest is not that much bigger than Anderson and Forrest would definitely Tower over Fedor. Fedor's fight finder may say 233 but he usually comes in between 220 and 230, occasionally around 235. I don't see the flaw in my argument.
ReplyDeleteAs for Alistair Overeem, he lost to alot of the pioneers of MMA. To say that he's never handled top competition is pretty much wrong. Let's go to the fight finder.
Vitor Belfort, Igor Vovchanchyn, Sergei Kharitonov, Paul Buentello, Roman Zentsov. Those are mostly relatively early in his career. He faced a a ton of fighters who have at one time or another been #2 (Fedor has been #1 for Overeem's entire career) and there are fights that are not listed on the Sherdog fight finder. Alistair Overeem also has a recent win over VERY strong competition in Badr Hari. Hari is a k-1 standout who got tired of not being able to hit people when they're down and who wanted to use some ground fighting so he started fighting MMA. I am pretty sure he is the 2005 K-1 GP champion although don't quote me on that one. He lost his last championship match to DQ because he hit the guy on the ground, but the dude was basically knocked the fuck out. Remy Bonjasky. You also forget Mirko came to the UFC to dodge Overeem. Overeem was beating him handily in their first fight, but got him in the nuts from a knee. At least he doesnt do this on purpose like Cheick Kongo openly admits to doing. That guy is a fucking idiot. A second fight had been in the works for a long time, especially once Mirko's surgery healed. Why would Mirko come to the UFC after looking terrible in his previous fight? Why do you think the UFC is so vague on what Mirko has been doing? Do you realize UFC has been trying to sign Overeem as well? They're stuck promoting Kimbo right now! Alistair has been seen at multiple UFC events, sometimes watching them WITH Dana White. That doesn't mean Alistair can or will beat Lesnar, but in MMA you have to play devil's advocate or you'll end up crying at the end of every UFC event.
Couture has a 14-9 record and he's fought at LHW and HW. Why is this a bad thing for Overeem or Fedor and not for Couture? They all 3 weigh within the same range as Chuck Liddell. And Losses to Rua, Arona, Kharitonov, Nogueira, Werdum and Liddell arent exactly something to commit Seppuku over. They are all top 3 competition. At the time, any one of those guys was stiffer competition than almost any member of the UFC currently, especially their waning heavyweight division.
It cut the rest of my post, and I'm not writing it again. Suffice it to say the UFC's grass is not the greenest of green, and Fedor owes more to himself than he owes to any of us.
ReplyDeleteHHAAHHAHAHHAHH Stupidity at its highest level...wow. Strong words from a Seminole All-Star. Ok, the funny thing is, you arent even worth the time its taking to write this. As a show of that, I'm just going to stop writing it right in the middle the middle of whatever Im sa--
ReplyDeleteYou have said absolutely nothing even close to relative to this topic I said he is over ratted and you said look out for Dos Santos and said Fedor hasnt aways fought #2 fighters. I have responded to all your posts as made up or true as they are including your dumb ass Manning Starr comparison bawahahaha. Forret walks around at 240 according to Joe Rogan who obviously knows moreabout than you. If Fedor fights at 230 or 225 he probably walks around at 245.
ReplyDeleteYou claim silva is bigger than Fedor but have no source except something you think. You obviously like Fedor cool but the subject is, is he or isnt he overratted. UFC is the cream of teh crop. Fighters aspire to come fight here because of the talent, money, and fame.
Alistair beat Belfort whosea 185-205er, Buentello a fat boxer. Buentello is not top competition. He throws a big hand. We will see when he gets ran through by Fedor. Had I known youd cry about removing the dick I would have said it. But you think you know every thing about this and you have all these stats and numbers which you made up. And you took a shot at me at figt finder yet you keep bringing it up. We can argue all day but after Oversteem and Rogers then what Mr. MMA
what all this of fedor being overrated, its a matter of perspective, fedor is as good as i believe he is not what everyone else thinks, hes earned the top spot for a long time he just has to keep proving that he belongs in the top spot, i think fighting overeem would be a legit fight, overeem has won his last 6 fights including the nc vs mirko, and his ko win over hari was very impressive http://www.myvideofight.com/K-1/K1-Badr-Hari-vs-Alistair-Overeem, after overeem, who is there rogers? yeah before fedor gets old i would like to see him the ufc, i dont see him as being overrated, not coming to the ufc and fighting brock doesnt overshadow his abilities as a fighter, i think that what his fans want to see is him fighting the best, and after he gets past thats if, but after he gets through his next few opponents i dont expect their to be any more top opponents for him outside the UFC and if he is still bullshitting and dodging the ufc by then, i will be super pissed.
ReplyDelete